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March 4th 2022
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Remote Leadership; How To Lead Humans In A Way That Makes It OK To Feel Human

Session overview

Speaker:
What to expect:

The remote landscape allows leaders to really strip back to the fundamentals of guiding teams forward. And what has become apparent, is the traditional “cogs-of-a-machine”, “well-oiled”, and “everything-automated” focus on leadership is dying out. THANK GOD!

Leading in the remote world means having a greater awareness of and skills to manage the diverse, messiness, and wonderfulness of human beings. This talk will take a look into key principles that leaders in the remote world need to specialise in to successfully serve their teams.

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Remote Leadership; How To Lead Humans In A Way That Makes It OK To Feel Human

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Tom Stinson: Good day [00:03:00] WordFest. I am absolutely thrilled to have the opportunity to share with you today. Whether you are watching live or catching up at a later date, I’m thrilled to be with you. My name is Tom. I live on the sunshine coast in beautiful Australia with my wife, Ellie, and we have three wonderful children who drive us completely mad.

Tom Stinson: And adult called peanut who is extremely lazy, even for a whip. It, I also get the opportunity to help shape and strive to create an exceptional experience for the community members of XWP today. Uh, I want to share about a topic that I’m really passionate about. One that I hope everyone will be able to connect with a topic that I’m hopeful will encourage it.

Tom Stinson: To continue moving in a positive direction with how we approach, define and handle the term leadership in the remote space. [00:04:00] I’ve titled my talk today. Remote leadership, how to lead humans in a way that makes it okay to feel human. I remember when I first stepped into a leadership role at one of my first jobs, not XWP, my manager pulled me aside.

Tom Stinson: Uh, just remember Tom, you’re no longer one of just, you know, only one of the boys, unfortunately. Yes, it was a very male dominant place. But the comment I had it, a couple of internal reactions to this, firstly, a sense of understanding as in I understood what they were trying to say that with leadership, there is a new range of responsibility with new expectations.

Tom Stinson: I couldn’t just continue in the same manner as I had previously, there was a shift expected, but then I had also another reaction. And then this one was [00:05:00] an ease about it. Didn’t really like the idea that my relationships had to change, that there was now an expected gap between those who I once worked with and who I was now expected to lead.

Tom Stinson: And this second reaction has stuck with me for years since that moment. Why do we have to have this degree of separation between people that we are working with?

Tom Stinson: The relational side of the relationship is now irrelevant. And the relationship is now solely based on your position or your role, your title. I wonder if you’ve been in a similar situation where you find the dynamics of relationships have been changed because of a change to title or role either to you or someone else say, [00:06:00] I think the problem is that we we’ve lived in a world where unfortunately, dominantly, titles and roles have been the cornerstone of the work experience.

Tom Stinson: With the value of a person at work is looped through the eyes of their role, their KPIs and their outcomes. And to be fair, like on paper, I guess that makes sense. But if there’s one thing I hope we can all agree on, there’s a big difference between the paper version of life in life. My personal belief and hope is that there is a real shift towards that.

Tom Stinson: Cornerstone becoming the makeup and values of the individual. I believe that with the rising prominence of remote work, many, many businesses organizations, startups, actioning on the realization [00:07:00] that people cannot be looked at as just titles roles. The cogs of a machine, but they must be viewed and treated as individuals that are human beings.

Tom Stinson: This is because the preexisting blurred lines of work in life are becoming clearer. And then as I said, lines, plural, because I don’t think there is just one line with work and then life. And there’s all the twined. It’s a mess. The truth is. Um, more than ever. The toll of life is visibly affecting work and that’s not a negative.

Tom Stinson: There’s been many moments throughout history where the toll of life has been overwhelmed, overwhelming, but there is barely been a response. The difference today, I believe is that we are all seeing [00:08:00] inside lives and homes. Of everyone else during these calls that are happening. And we actually visibly seen the tall in play.

Tom Stinson: So the natural effect, and this is why it perhaps isn’t all negative is that the need to acknowledge this, the effects of light. And work. So all out humanity is growing in further in force and this shift will continue to happen as more and more of us take responsibility for it, just because we may not have a leadership role within the structure of an organization.

Tom Stinson: That doesn’t mean we can’t be a leader for change. Those of us that are, and have been working in a remote freelance type of arrangement for a while now, [00:09:00] I’m hoping we’ve been privileged to experience being treated and seen as human beings. I believe several remote companies either began because of the notion that we can be live, work, wherever it makes sense for the individually.

Tom Stinson: Or either because a company sought after the diverse contributions that come from having team members all around the world, bringing their culture, their diverse outlook to the team, both of these recognize and celebrate the individuality of humans. There are other reasons for being in the remote space.

Tom Stinson: I know. And even if initially the intentions were good doesn’t mean they still are. Yeah. In the remote space, we are well positioned to lead in a way that respects values and promotes being human. And this is what I specifically want to speak about today. [00:10:00] A leader’s role is to make it feel okay to be, and feel here.

Tom Stinson: And to clarify, I don’t want to throw the baby out with the bath water roles. KPIs outcomes are vitally important. Good leadership is connecting where we want to go to the understanding of the individual with that individual’s capabilities and limitations are accounted for. And that is the same as if you were leading down, up or around.

Tom Stinson: So, what does it mean to be human? Well, technically you don’t need to do anything to be human, but I think what it means to be in, uh, an ecosystem with humans to be working, living, supporting celebrate together is to first [00:11:00] acknowledge and then learn to work with those. That unite us and those things that are unique to all of us.

Tom Stinson: Now that could be a whole list of things that are unite or are unique to us. But I just want to focus on two key points for each and I’m going to be honest. I feel these, these are pretty basic, but I also feel they get forgotten a lot. So I’m goona to start with the things that united us. And they are that we are emotional and intelligent beings, emotions.

Tom Stinson: They drive us and lead us both consciously and unconsciously. There’s so much wonderful research and evidence today about the, how the emotional side of us is one of the leading factors in how we make decisions, how we respond to circumstances and how we live out. [00:12:00] So as a leader or team member, we need to remind ourselves daily that who we are working alongside of people coming together with a whole range of emotional statuses.

Tom Stinson: So our leaders response is that they have to, and I repeat, they have to take ownership of the emotional atmosphere they created. With all these emotions and everybody bringing it in, we need to take responsibility for the atmosphere that we create. And it’s no longer acceptable to expect the individuals leave their emotions at the, at the metaphorical door as they enter work.

Tom Stinson: It is no longer acceptable to blame an individual for the emotional response that.

Tom Stinson: A leader has to take ownership and [00:13:00] responsibility for the emotional atmosphere they create. And that needs to be a safe place where individuals feel their emotions are valid and respected

Tom Stinson: a few things. I think we can do to put into practice to help us with this. The first thing is, um, learn about empathy and going beyond that is learning about the difference between empathy and sympathy in the book. Uh, practical empathy, the author Indy young says empathy is about understanding how another person thinks and acknowledging their reasoning and emotions as valid, even if they differ from your own understanding.

Tom Stinson: Am I going to stand? That can be tough to be able to understand and acknowledge [00:14:00] the reasoning behind their emotions and not just say, okay, that’s on. I get that, but understand that they are valid. And I said, that can be tough, but a leader’s job is to step into where it’s tough. And make it easier path for the next person by acknowledging someone’s current situation and their emotions, it will help create and strengthen a positive emotional atmosphere.

Tom Stinson: A few other things simply be nice. Love people over the process. Life is too short to fall in love with the process. Fall in love with people. One thing I have learned through many, many failed, uh, moments in my own leadership [00:15:00] is this is about that is that generally when, uh, I lost my nerve or my emotions have risen to the top.

Tom Stinson: It’s barely been about that very moment or what is taking place right there. And then, but it’s because something else has been going on in the background and this spark, or this moment has brought out all the emotion and that poor person on the receiving end has no idea. What’s just happened. See, this is actually about that.

Tom Stinson: And it happens more than you think. And for ourselves, as, as, as leaders, we need to ask and investigate moments like these to ensure we fully grasp the situation, whether it’s happening to us or to somebody else so that we can respond in the right way. And we can only do that when emotions are okay to be shared that they’re not all bottled up and then explode.[00:16:00]

Tom Stinson: There is a positive atmosphere for people to be who they are and feeling. How they are. We are all emotional beings as leaders in the remote space. We need to remind them focus on this because with the disconnect of human interaction, with being all around the world with not physically seeing somebody in the office, it is far too easy to forget and to not learn about this.

Tom Stinson: So our response is to learn everything. It’s not natural. That actually needs to be a step to learn about it and put it into practice. So that first thing is that we are emotional. The second thing that unites us is that we are all intelligent beings. This means that we are constantly learning [00:17:00] and taking on new aspects to consider and apply to our work.

Tom Stinson: And. As a leader, we need to remind ourselves that those we serve our team, uh, growing and expanding every day from their wins and their failures. They are building upon their knowledge and how to apply themselves in the future. A leader is responsible for their, the ease of sharing knowledge and its application within a team, as well as a de identifying gaps.

Tom Stinson: And if needed where extra possible outside support is needed. So a few things to help us with this, uh, li uh, remote leaders response. I believe we should come with the mindset that we want to raise leaders as if, as a default, don’t give tasks, give [00:18:00] responsibility. Tasks mean stay in your lane. The things that, you know, the things that I’ve seen you be able to do, I’m just wanting you to do that.

Tom Stinson: Do that task responsibility means explore. Add your perspective to the solution. Give the opportunity for people to handle the responsibility of something and learn what they can achieve. Be on the confined expectations. And you will raise leaders. This will help close those gaps before you have to look internally, externally, look internally, and for this as leaders, we need to learn about trust.

Tom Stinson: And again, in the remote space, trust can be difficult because you can’t, you can’t sneak over to their desk to see how things are going. You can’t be just checking in and it’s, it’s [00:19:00] natural to fear what we can’t see. I remember when I, uh, I went on a holiday to venowado. And I went snorkeling on this coral reef and it was, it was gorgeous.

Tom Stinson: It was beautiful, the colors of the fish and the coral. And it was the most amazing experience, but I slammed to the edge and, and it just dropped off into the depths. And I remember peering over and watching the water go that, that darker blue down to deep, deep black and my chest just seemed to, you know, contract.

Tom Stinson: It was like this, this field. And it was because of the unknown it’s because I couldn’t see what was down there. And when there is something that is unknown on natural reaction is to be fearful of it, fearful of what could be done there. And we generally go to the worst case scenario. And so [00:20:00] when we can’t see things, we fear.

Tom Stinson: That they will not work out. And we can fear that the floors of, of our people and we all have flaws. We fear that they will be the defining moment or aspect of that job or that task or that project or responsibility. And then not only hurts the person that hurts us as well, but in that regard, giving tasks can seem easier.

Tom Stinson: However, I wanted to share a few, uh, quotes on the value of trusting people by some individuals who are far more qualified than I am. Jim Collins quoting his, his close mentor and co-author builders here. He says, look. Think of it as upside and downside. Here’s [00:21:00] the wager, what’s the upside. If you to take the bit of mistrust, well, you’ll maybe prevent yourself from having one of those hurtful experiences.

Tom Stinson: And what’s the downside. The downside is trustworthy people. You will lose them. And the upside to trusting people is when you find the trustworthy people, they will rise to. If you’ve ever considered the possibility that not everybody is one or the other, but because you trust them at that outset, they are more likely to become trustworthy because you trust them.

Tom Stinson: I think it’s a, it’s a beautiful quote. And every time I read it, I think I want to give people the opportunity to rise to it. Simon Sinek. One of the greatest voices on leadership today, in my opinion, he says [00:22:00] a team is not a group of people who work together. A team is a group of people who trust each other.

Tom Stinson: It goes on to say, there are only two ways to influence human behavior. You can manipulate it or you can inspire it. See fear, suffocates creativity. Honesty loyalty, wellbeing and growth fear will suffocate the collaboration of intelligent beings. Yet trust is one of the core principles of creating an environment that is inspired and prepared to rise to the challenge it faces.

Tom Stinson: And just on a side note, I just want to say. Nothing quite inspires and says, I trust you like forcing screen recording surveillance on your team.[00:23:00]

Tom Stinson: And I hope that you’re picking up that I’m joking, strip it all back. We are all emotional and intelligent beings. And as a leader, we need to not only identify that within ourselves. But recognize that within those that we serve as leaders as well. So we look at the things that unite us more to look at a couple of things that are unique to us as well.

Tom Stinson: And they are that we are diverse and that we are at different stages, looking at diverse. We no longer just have multicultural and diverse hubs within largest towns or cities in the remote world. We are multicultural and diverse. There are no more boundaries to this. We have a real opportunity to lead [00:24:00] the way in what work should look like to be inclusive.

Tom Stinson: Provided quality. Diverse to me to be human is to embrace diversity, remote leaders, response, and reminded that a leader doesn’t need a title. But I think a leader’s response to this is, is to learn again, empathy. Empathy is at the core of. To learn about another person’s point of view to learn about how someone reacts and why they’re reacting and why they feel the way they do.

Tom Stinson: And the actions we can take on is firstly, to assess the things that we are responsible for and ask ourselves, [00:25:00] how can I be an advocate for diversity, equality and inclusion. And that, that, that that’s, I, I know that doesn’t sound like I’m answering the question, but I feel like the first thing we need to do is ask ourselves that because it all starts with us.

Tom Stinson: And to be honest, I’m not going to pretend that I’m an expert on this topic at all. You know, I’m a white middle-class male raised in a Western country, however, I’m on a. And I’m going to be asking questions and exploring this topic so that I can unlearn a whole lot of things and then learn how I can be a better human.

Tom Stinson: And I believe that if you are a human leader in the remote space, you should, at the very least do likewise. Secondly, what we can do [00:26:00] is plan. On how we’re going to be an advocate for change and lead up in this area, because I can promise you if you think that this is something that is someone else’s responsibility, then you are hiding and lead is don’t hide

Tom Stinson: in embracing the diversity of your team is, is magic. Allowing everyone, the chance to speak into an ad, their perspectives only multiplies the experience and to do this, as I said, learn empathy, pause, and listen to your fellow humans at SWP. One of our most meaningful initiatives, our home. These are, uh, groups, uh, designed to provide connection and support to our [00:27:00] community members.

Tom Stinson: Um, in a real casual setting, you know, the, the groups vary in size and it made up of team members in similar time zones yet from varying places, countries, backgrounds. COVID. And these home-based is they help our community members to build friendships, providing a network for them to, uh, help each other in, in personal and professional growth, but also to learn about each other’s cultures and to strengthen our community and our overall culture on vexed w.

Tom Stinson: It’s a wonderful place to be able to open up your life and to share your stories and listen to other people, to, to journey with them, to celebrate with them, to mourn with them, to pick each other up, to, to cheer them on. And it impacts our whole working environment.[00:28:00]

Tom Stinson: A remote leader needs to embrace and be an advocate for diversity. We are in the box seats to show the world how humans can and should work together.

Tom Stinson: The second point I want to talk about the things that are unique to us is that we’re at different stages. And I believe that this sign that goes under the radar. Not just working with different experiences that are available, but also with the different life stages. I think typically with, at office work, it would be quite common to find people who are in the same stages of life, in the same roles, with the same level of experience, but with remote work, The variety of stages can be vastly different.

Tom Stinson: A [00:29:00] small example, you know, the team I get to work with, we have two highly skilled mothers who have young children and are still breastfeeding. A female who is new to the industry after a career change, a father who has spent the majority of the last two years in hospital with his daughter, a female who is a digital nomad with her.

Tom Stinson: A mother who has been navigating a career change and, uh, doing at-home learning with her teenagers, a father who is homeschooling his young children in the mountains. And then another who’ve really located near some ski fields with his family, just within our team. We have many different stages of personal and work life records.

Tom Stinson: And I’m so thrilled that the life choices and situations of my teammates and not considered a hindrance to their work or ability, but actually it is [00:30:00] an enriching benefit to who we are and what we can offer. So how can a remote leader respond to this thing? It is about embracing the different. Of experiences equally and adjust your expectations to allow for multiple stages.

Tom Stinson: It doesn’t weaken, it enhances your team. So again, it it’s about learning trust about saying, you know what? I may not understand your stage. I know may not be there. I don’t know about your experience, but I’m going to place trust in you to add to this community.

Tom Stinson: The diversity in different stages that are on offer in the remote space can allow us to lead in a new way and break down some old [00:31:00] irrelevant walls that have been pulled up.

Tom Stinson: So tired. I wanted to talk about that. A leader’s role is to make it feel okay. To be human. Okay. And the things that unite us, but also in the uniqueness that we bring, the things that unite us were that were emotional. And as a leader, ask yourself, how can I create a positive emotional atmosphere and learn about empathy?

Tom Stinson: The second thing is that we’re in trouble. Ask yourself, how can I encourage collaboration? And the application of knowledge learn about trust? The things that are unique is that we are diverse. Ask yourself, how can I be an advocate for diversity, equality and inclusion, learn [00:32:00] empathy, and we’re in different stages.

Tom Stinson: Uh, ask yourself, how do the differences of the team bring new perspectives and insights learn trust?

Tom Stinson: When my daughter was three months old, um, we had to take her to hospital because of an infection soon found out it was meningitis, which is a serious infection. The. Which was going to resolve my wife and Molly, having to stay in hospital for six weeks. And I would be at home without all the two, while the nurses were doing a routine check, they found a lump in her abdomen, long story short after tests and surgery, we found that she had aggressive neuroblastoma cancer and with treatment, she was given a 50, 50 chance of surviving.

Tom Stinson: [00:33:00] So four months old, she started chemotherapy. And a lot of other things I’m passionate about treating and leading humans in a way that makes it okay to feel human because I was on the receiving end of this. My work community offered all the support that I and my family would need. They allowed me space.

Tom Stinson: They allow me to talk. They offered me support in so many ways, but they also need that my capacity was drastically reduced. And the best way for me to work was by give me lists of tasks to do see responsibilities. Weren’t right. For me at that time, the tasks were good. I could come to work and just work through them.

Tom Stinson: It felt like I was still contributing back to my team, but then I was able to be there for my family.[00:34:00]

Tom Stinson: My daughter is now two and a half years old. The other month she was cleared of all cancer and that we are so excited as her parents to be at lead her and love her in a life that’s going to be long and amazing. But see, I, I was treated as a human being where my emotions. And stage work acknowledged, accounted for and supported.

Tom Stinson: And all I wanted to do now is give back so much to my community and workplace because of how they treated me. Do not think we need to focus just on the processes and the outcomes. Otherwise, the work you won’t get done. I, I promise you. If you as a remote leader today, if you create an [00:35:00] environment that respects and believes in humans, that allows them to be okay with feeling and being human, the work will get done better than you had planned.

Tom Stinson: Thank you.

Cathy Tibbles: Thank you so much, Tom. I had a whole bunch of questions. All I was taking notes and then you made me cry and then I’m really glad that it was like a three minute advertisement or sponsors. How are you doing Misty?

Misty Combs: Very well. Thank you.

Cathy Tibbles: Good Tom. That was, um, amazing, I, I feel like um, ok, I’m good.

Cathy Tibbles: Now. ok bye, like, that was worth my 24 hour. Like that’s um, we just expanded my team from like just me and two friends that I’ve been [00:36:00] working with forever to seven of us. And I feel like challenged to, to do that and be the kind of place where people can be themselves.

Tom Stinson: Yeah, it was, I think it’s, I think it’s really powerful to, uh, encourage everyone to be who they are and to, to not have to be a different person when they come online or step into the office or wherever it is, but, uh, to be validated and supported.

Cathy Tibbles: How often have you given this message. What is the response been? Don’t you get like, okay. Millennial head, like,

Tom Stinson: uh, I mean, this was the first time I’ve, I’ve spoken at an event like this. So, um, but this type of message. I hope it’s, it’s a message that I bring wherever I am and wherever I interact with different people.

Tom Stinson: Yeah, I know that. Yeah. With the whole [00:37:00] millennial, you know, we talk about our, our feelings and things like that. And I guess that’s why I wanted to share at the end that, um, it doesn’t weaken us or we can our teams by acknowledging and supporting and, and, uh, raising awareness of the emotional side of us.

Tom Stinson: And I, it, rather than. Creating an environment where people are free to be who they are and, uh, validated in how they are. Uh, and that might change through different seasons and different times. Um, I think that strengthens it. I truly do. I think it just strengthens the team and it strengthens that outcomes.

Tom Stinson: Um, where I, I mean, I know my, my team a lot more now that I know who they are, and I know how they work in a better way because of. Uh, more about them. I know how I can encourage them. I know how I can support them. I know to how I, uh, I [00:38:00] guess when looking at them, I can see when they maybe are stressed or how they are feeling a moment and I can respond to that.

Tom Stinson: And I think it’s just, you know, we know that with our closest friends, you know, we can see when, you know, uh, a girlfriend or a boyfriend, uh, uh, not, uh, not great and not in a great place. And we, we can, we can be there for them. Um, so I think, in work.

Tom Stinson: Yeah. The home basis that we have.

Cathy Tibbles: Can you tell me more about what that looks like?

Cathy Tibbles: Um, you zoom every night, like is another meeting?

Tom Stinson: Yeah. It’s another meeting, another meeting, which you’ll love and hate. Um, yeah, so we just create, um, everyone that, uh, is in a home base. They have essentially their own slack channel, um, within our work. And then they also can get to. For about an hour a month, um, for on a call and it’s just a place to, to connect so on slack, you know, often [00:39:00] it’s sharing what they’ve been up to or, you know, uh, cause we are remote company.

Tom Stinson: It’s what our view is today. Or if we’re working from a different location or going out, uh, walking or, or seeing something, we just sort of share these moments, um, and interactions with these people. Uh, on a, on a call it’s, it’s not work-related, it’s just a place to relax. Maybe play a game together or, or tell some stories or do it some challenges together.

Tom Stinson: So just to, to build that connection and to learn as I’m, as I mentioned, um, uh, from, from different, uh, people’s different experiences and cultures. So I I’m in Australia. So one of my, the home-based Ironman, um, also includes people throughout Asia. Uh, so one of the greatest things I had, uh, this last year was, was really learning about how, uh, the Wylie is celebrated in India, uh, and, and the, the, the, what, what goes on there and the meaning behind it.

Tom Stinson: And so it just [00:40:00] sort of get a, a greater depth of insight into the cultures of the people who we work with. And, uh, and I, I think that only string. And helps us.

Cathy Tibbles: I think it’s really hard not to get lonely. When you’re a remote worker, you work remote to Misty?

Misty Combs: I do. I worked for a company that has about 733 people.

Misty Combs: Um, globally. I believe we’re in 34 countries in 42 states in the United States. We have had a lot of acquisitions. Last few years. So you have different work environments, work cultures, things that organizations felt were important. And it’s really important to be one company and connected. So just as Tom was saying that the things that make us unique as individuals aren’t necessarily our work-related skillset.

Misty Combs: So we have looked for opportunities to help people connect on more of a personal. We do leverage slack for, um, common interests, like people who, with a passion for photography or cooking or their [00:41:00] pets or. And then we try to do things where we really like to talk smack. And we really like a bit of competition.

Misty Combs: So online, um, card games, like, uh, Euchre I’m from Michigan and, and it’s kind of a, uh, Michigan card game that we are sharing that culture with our friends around the world. Um, we might have a couple of drinks. Give each other a hard time while we play cards or trivia, just trying to build those relationships.

Misty Combs: If you know somebody as a human being, it’s a lot easier to give them grace, when something is going on at work.

Cathy Tibbles: I actually just had a conversation this week about how emotion like. I want to just be more, I guess it’s my personality and firstborn. I don’t know. I would just want to like, get it done, like just do the things.

Cathy Tibbles: What’s the emotion business. And, and, um, but she said, you know, [00:42:00] when you’re emotional or vulnerable, when somebody meets you there and is accepting and loving, it has a far bigger impact. Like we can like each other’s little personas easily, but when you’re actually real with somebody in our accepted. That has an impact.

Cathy Tibbles: And I don’t think we’re going to have much of a choice anyway, because millennials are taking over the world.

Tom Stinson: Yeah. I think it’s just about recognizing that, that a huge part of us is that we are emotional beings and, and, and I think, and I’m not saying. We’re the first generation to, to catch onto this or anything like that.

Tom Stinson: I think it’s just about growing and learning it as we move forward. And rather than even, rather than breaking it down into general, this is, uh, the definition of one generation to another generation. I think it’s now just that we are moving forward and we’re becoming more and more aware that, uh, our emotions, uh, cannot be.

Tom Stinson: [00:43:00] As we enter in the workplace, that they are a part of, how are we going to interact at work? How, or what type of work we’re going to produce, but also the, the type of person that we are. Uh, so I mean, and, and I’m not saying that everybody has to, or needs to open up about everything and all the deepest, darkest secrets, but I think it’s just having that, um, for the leader to have, create that environment where it’s safe for people to be vulnerable.

Tom Stinson: And it’s okay. And it’s not going to be like responsibility for that. That was a really good, yeah. Yeah, definitely. We got environment last. Was that in that book? I like, I believe so. I get, I get lost between all the different books and podcasts or sessions I’ve seen. Uh, but he’s, he’s a fantastic voice, I think.

Cathy Tibbles: Do I get to keep talking? When are we done? Oh, you know what we have, uh, we have a community. In the next 10 minutes. Why don’t you [00:44:00] think are sponsors Misty?

Misty Combs: Our thanks to our sponsors, Bluehost, Cloudways, GoDaddy, Nexcess, Yoast, and Weglot. Please be sure to visit our tent and chat with them. You may even win some prizes.

Misty Combs: Don’t forget to get your photo snapped or the photo booth sponsored by Multicollab and Dreamhost and tweeted out with a hashtag WordFest live hashtags also. Thanks.

Cathy Tibbles: Yep. And Cloudways it has their launch with words, uh, in the tent. Yeah. So you can go back to the tent and it should be right where you got the link to come in this room and thank you so much, Tom. Really, really enjoyed it. So we’ll see you back in 10 minutes. Okay.[00:45:00]

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